'09 Windwing Batwing 12m

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Here you can post comments for article: '09 Windwing Batwing 12m (http://www.extremekites.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=488)

[.Joel]

Nice review Koma!

I'll put the kite on the faster turning setting for you next time to try again.

Regards,

.Joel

[koma]

It's got a faster setting?! Sounds good. :)
Mental note: from this point on i need to make sure any kite i demo/review is set up on it's fastest setting.

[.Joel]

When I set the kite up it had 3 steering settings, slow, normal and fast. I left it on the default factory setting for now to try, changing the steering speed i think will also change the bar pressure as well.

Try it next weekend!

Regards,

.Joel

[groundclown]

Hello Guys,
My name is Jonathon, from Windwing R&D. A little about myself. I have been power kiting for about 18 years now, and learned to kitesurf before ILE kites. I work for Windwing as a member of the R&D / design team. I like to ride groundboards, snowkite and water kite. I also like to fly 2 an d 4 line stunt kites.

First I want to start by saying that, this is a very nice forum. I have looked around just a bit, but notice a much friendlier environment, and maturity. The reviews I read were well put together. I do not see a bunch of "Pimping" and "bashing".

I just wanted to post a few comments about Koma's Review. I see that Joel had you set up on the factory settings. I typically use a 56cm bar with the 12 and 15.5 Batwing. two of our riders use 50cm and Boarding Bob uses a 45cm bar. I believe that I sent you guys the 50cm bar. I do agree that the kite uses a greater amount of turning input than some. However, even on the slowest turning, with the smallest bar, I disagree about the slow turning and "not a looping kite". The turns take an instant to initiate, but are tight and with fast forward air speed. I myself do huge (or often tiny) downloop transitions (I like oldschool board-off's). I often (many times per session) do backloops and F-16's. My brother Donald who only learned how to stay up wind in February, Has learned to do kiteloops, downloops and even a few un-hooked back kite loops, a few with rolls even. Donald is luckily to be loopin as he broke his leg this spring (Yes, kiting).

All Windwing kites are designed to be stable and use a bit more bar input to perform turns. The Batwing's are designed around light wind and big air riding. They work well for free/ wake-style even in 10knts. I can explain the weird folding of the leading edge. It has happened to me a few times. It has happened to me when water launching it hot, and depowered. It can be caused by the conjunction of two things. First, the kite needs pumped to a solid 7-8lbs on the LE and struts. If the center strut is spongy, then it can allow the canopy to collapse, letting to wingtips pass up the center of the kite(while folding the LE). Also if the one-pump has been installed, then it is important to clip the tubes closed. This can allow the air to displace across the kite and into the struts causing it to flex more.

Have fun on your next session. put the control lines on the furthest forward of the 3 pick-off's, and continue being aggressive with the bar. once used to the kite I am sure you will find yourself pulling tight little back loops on the apex of your jumps. down loops and the like.:yes3: try some freestyle, and hit the waves. Tell us all what the Batwing is all about.

Thanks again for the great review!

Jonathon Merrell
AKA -groundclown

[koma]

Hi Jonathon and thanks for your interest in my review. It's always great to hear from someone who actually worked on the kite design to get a better idea of how, what and why.

Very interesting about the bar length as it felt about the same length as the other bars i was using that day so didn't think anything of it. The slightly longer bar would most definitely change the turning speed for the better. I found (as i mentioned in my review) that the kite would turn reasonably quickly once it was committed to the turn, but found it a little hesitant to initiate a quick turn. What this meant for me whilst i was on the water was that during the downloops it felt like the kite was going to 'run wide' in the turns. It of course wasn't, it just required the bar to be held cranked for the turn a little longer than i'm personally used to. I tend to be a 'wrench the bar to turn then let the kite fly out of it' style rider, and the Batwing responded very quickly to any change in turning pressure which meant i needed to hold the bar cranked for longer than i usually do.

Also to put it into context i had been flying quite an interesting array of kites that day ranging from my own favourite Naish Alliance 12 (slight wake-style delay on turning but quite rapid once committed), to Joel's '08 North Vegas 12 (very very fast turning with no delay), right through to an old ~2004 Flexifoil 15m C-kite (very slow but insanely powerful). What this meant was that when i began riding the Windwing Batwing i spent the first 10-15 minutes just tuning myself into the kite. My initial reaction was that it felt quite powerful but not raw and grunty much like a GK Sonic, but retracted that shortly after once i'd had some time on the water. It still provided a very smooth refined feel to the power, but still not that raw grunt i personally favour which is why i had described it as a 'well mannered' and 'forgiving' kite.

Thanks for addressing the leading edge quirk. I had thought it might have been related to the LE pressure but as i hadn't pump/set the kite up was unsure what it had been pumped to. On the day of the review it wasn't using the one-pump system but good suggestion. I'm hoping to get a chance to give it another run this weekend (or next) and will pay more attention to the tuning and inflation pressure.

Now i've just got to hope my shoulder fixes itself up before the weekend else i'll be the one taking photographs. :(
If i do i'll be sure to give it a good hard wrench on the bar and get it moving for some good loops. I'll be sure to report back if/when i do fly it again.

[groundclown]

Koma,
I hope your feeling better.
Get your wife to find the "trigger-point" in your shoulder. The "knotted up" muscle band in your shoulder. Deep presure and kneading. A little pain goes a long way.

There are a few things to try on the Bat. At the front bridle, where the small "check mark" shaped section is near the wing tip.
There is a pig tail with 3 knots on it connecting the forward half of the small "check bridle" to the kite. The factory setting is on the second knot. If you move the bridle to the end knot(furthest from kite), this gives the kite a slightly higher static AOA, thus giving a gruntier feel, while also moving the forward tow points back, giving it lighter bar pressure.

If you raise the bridle to the top knot (closest to the kite), this makes for a zippy feel- reduced sled pull, greater range of depower due to a more forward tow point, and raising bar pressure to the heavier side of things.

Jonathon
Sorry, I am in a hurry. Pm me if you want