General Kiting

Now jason I know you've got a 9m demo up there(I flew it at Stockton) but would you also have a 15m? could you send em both to Luke for me to try out back to back against my speed2s and Luke's Speed3s?
I need a couple of smaller sizes(8mS2 n 5mS1.5under serious consideration) and with having flown the Matrixx9m It's the obvious choice, but I wonder if it'd be worth an entire new quiver, 5m 9m 15m + will they go the whole hog n build a 19 or 21m?
George, Thought's?

Hi Dave,
HQ dont make under 9m so I bought a 6m Viron last week from Jason. People I spoke to told me not to bother with the Viron cause its to slow and not much power.
I had it out two days ago in 16-18knts and I tell you what, Its got some pull alright, and in 30 to 40kts who wants a fast lifty kite any ways,it will be magic. I recon no matter what size kite, in the right winds it WILL drag you and even thump you. When I used to buggy I'd pull out a 1m Imp in 35-40 knt winds and boy that little bugger would pack a mean punch.

Now on the other end, I think the 15m is enough for light wind I was out at Altona yesturday and the wind went from 16knts down to 6-7kts and I was the last guy to put down the kite, I even saw Norman down his kite in the other end, while I was still in the air. Sorry Norman. If only I had a bigger board, the 555 is not stiff enough an has to much rocker.
But with saying that if HQ bought out a 19m Matrixx i'd grab one.

Spartan

Thanks George, I didn't realise they didn't make em smaller than that... Back to the drawing board then. Out of curiosity have you compared ur 15m with an equivalent 15m???

Thanks George, I didn't realise they didn't make em smaller than that... Back to the drawing board then. Out of curiosity have you compared ur 15m with an equivalent 15m???

The 15m Matrix is equivetant to a 17m Zefer, or 15m Flysurfer mate

Did someone cover float yet

Here's a couple of pics of Spartan strutting his stuff with his Matrix at Altona:

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By the way George and I were out at Altona last Sunday on our home made monster planks, was only about 9 or 10 knots, George was on his 15m^2 Matrix. Yes George has made one as well .

Regards,
Norman

Yep, that was my experimental day for my home made plank at 1500mm in length and 450mm wide. I now know it needs a little bit more rounding off at the end corners as it nose dives when it gets into some choppy water.

It was great having the water to ourselves, at 8-10knts till the wind picked upto 15-18knts (yes still with the 15m) and the rest of the crew joined us.

Spartan.

Ps. why did you leave early Norman, you didnt even wave goodby..

Ps. why did you leave early Norman, you didnt even wave goodby..

George,
I left early because my eyes were hurting. As you may remember I lost my prescription sunnies at Altona to Davy's Locker. So with the sea water, spray and sun, my eyes were really smarting and decided to call it quits. Picked up my new prescription sunnies yesterday, woo hoo and the Southerlies have started again today, how good is that.

Regards,
Norman.

Update on the Matrixx experience.....
Today I was out at Altona flying the 15m Matixx in blistering pace of 4-6 knts of wind, cause I had nothing better to do, but when it did get down to 2-3 knts had to work alot harder with lots of kite looping, but down wind only.
Then the wind just died and because I was in chest deep water, I couldnt walk backwards to keep it flying so the kite just dropped into the drink.
But by the time I Dragged it onto the beach, and a chat with the boys the wind picked up to a galeforce of 6-7 knts and off I went again into the big blue yonder, and with this time going up wind as well as down wind easily.
mind you I've also had this 15m in just over 20kts.

Spartan

Spartan,

What size board were you riding in these light winds?

-joedy

Hi Joedy,
The board I was using was a home made 143cm x 45cm plank of pine with foot straps.

Ps and out again today in 7-9knts for 2hrs by my self. I wondered at the time what every ony else was up to...

Spartan

Spartan,

I find your light-wind experiences on the Matrixx heartening.

I'm a little baffled, though, as to your light wind sessions on a 140'ish board. When I inquired with Chris (the HQ Kites USA importer) about how the Matrixx compares to the low wind ability of the Flysurfers, Chris mentioned that I would need somewhere in the vicinity of at least 10 knots and up in order to be able to utilize the Matrixx on the water.

It has now occurred to me that Chris' definition of "low-wind session" might have been much more lively than what I had pictured in my mind as a productive low-wind session (one that allows me to finish the session at the launch point without having to walk back.) Sedate low-wind sessions are not boring for me and I'd rather be riding than sitting on the shore dreaming about it. I'm wondering now if I should have asked Christ to clarify exactly what he envisions as a "fun" light-wind session with the Matrixx.

Is Chris' assumptions with the Matrixx 15 in less than 10 knots conservative?

How would you describe your less-than 10 knots Matrixx sessions? The reason I am most curious is that you mentioned that you are 85 kilos and this is my weight as well.

Here in the US, I can purchase a new Matrixx 15m for around $1300 USD. The cheapest new Flysurfer 15m will be around $2500 USD. The differences in costs can allow me to add a new Door to my quiver.

I'd be very curious to know of anyone who has ridden a Matrixx 15m on a Flydoor or Spleene in the 150cm size or larger. I wonder just how many more knots that the larger boards will add to the Matrixx's low-wind flight window?

Thanks for your feedback, Spartan. I've enjoyed reading this thread.

-joedy

Spartan,

I'm a little baffled, though, as to your light wind sessions on a 140'ish board. When I inquired with Chris (the HQ Kites USA importer) about how the Matrixx compares to the low wind ability of the Flysurfers, Chris mentioned that I would need somewhere in the vicinity of at least 10 knots and up in order to be able to utilize the Matrixx on the water.

How would you describe your less-than 10 knots Matrixx sessions? The reason I am most curious is that you mentioned that you are 85 kilos and this is my weight as well.

-joedy

I just measured the board I've made and use in light winds, and its a flat piece of pine timber
at 14800mm length x 450mm width, with no rocker which helps heaps in low wind kiting, and no fins ( fins create drag ), and with no fins you can just skim over sand at low tide with only one millimetre of water. The timber is coated in marine grade varnish.
I've just weighed myself and I'm 81kg.

You ask how do I describe light wind kiting ????
Well I one word... fantastic...
Like you I hate sitting on the beach waiting for the wind to pick up.

Spartan

Ps.. I'll put the video once more. This Video should say it all.

Im on a 555 Noble, at the time I was 86kg, I had a 4-3mm full wet suit on helmet and booties on (It was winter).
On the wind metre it shows that the wind was up to 10.5 kts at the maximum section, that reading was when Jason was walking from the car towards the beach.
The lowest wind was at 5.6knts 2:20 on the video timer, and the maximum was 8kts an average of 7knts.
Also on the video it shows me working the kite. On my plank of pine board just set and cruise.

So there's No need to be baffled Joedy...

Well, between my Flysurfer Pulse 10m and my Flysurfer Speed3 19m deluxe, I've noticed on my last kiting holiday that I really need something to span the gap between these two kites.

At around 180 pounds (85kg), I needed about 15 knots to get riding on the 10m while 15 knots was making me uncomfortably overpowered on the Speed3 19m.

I'm concerned that the Matrixx 12m is too close to the Pulse 10m and the Matrixx 15 meter is too close to the windrange of the 19m.

Does anyone have any input into this decision and what would you advise?

-joedy

I thin the best way is when do you stop with the 19 (wind speed) and what wind speed dose the pulse start to get good eg nicely powered then choose the kite that fits in between there like the top end of the 19 to the nicely powered point or just below the pulse as you know how u like to fly Best of luck hope this help

To fill the gap there will be a bit or cross over, thats what you want.
You may find that the matrixx or speed3 in 12m is the better option rather then a 15m. From what I understand and have read reviews of the pulse doesn't produce as much power as the matrixx or speed3 so even though they are close in size there is a bigger power gap between them.

I would say that the 15m^2 Matrix is more like the 12m^2 Speed III. I fly a Speed III 12m^2 and Spartan flies his Matrix 15m^2 usually at the same time I fly. Capabilities / speed etc are about on par, some times he has the upper hand, some times I have the upper hand.

It's always a dilema when trying to fill in a gap with another brand of kite, I had the same problem for my mid size kite, FlySurfer Psycho 10m^2 or HQ Matrix 9m^2 or 12m^2. In the end I went for the Psycho 10m^2.

Spartan may be able to help you out with the wind range of his Matrices given his weight.

Regards,
Norman.

Hopefully someone can go out the beach and flag Spartan down and tell him to come in and type up is opinion!

Somewhere I once had information on the aspect ratios of the Speed3 12m and the Matrixx 15m. Does anyone happen to know what these are?

A lot has been discussed in this tread about the low-ends of the Matrixx; I'm curious about the high end range since this is where I need to be considering the overlap values.


Norman:
Can you elaborate on what makes you feel that the Matrixx 15 and the Speed3 12m are similar? I'm curious to see if this pertains to turning speed, grunt or some other aspect.


-joedy

Joedy,

The Speed III's are flatter than the Matrix, therefore the Speed gets more projected area for rolled out flat area. Rolled out flat area is what kite manufactures quote and what is written on the kite. The Speed has a higher aspect ratio than the Matrix, this means the apparent wind needs to kick in to get the advantage. George likes more of the freestyle so a lower aspect ratio kite (more grunty) suits that style. Flysurfer quote on their web page the projected area, flat area and aspect ratio; HQ does not quote the projected area and if have not seen it any where.

My comments simply relate to my observations when I kite along side Spartan, either land or water action.

What is the top in wind speed you are looking for?

Regards,
Norman.

Norman,

My quiver void is around the 10-15 knot range. I need 15 knots to wake the Pulse 10m up and this is right where the Speed III 19m tops out (at least, tops out comfortably for me.)

I'm hearing of Matrixx 15m pilots holding off into the very low 20 knots range, but not so much as to what their experiences were like at 20 knots (as well as what their weights are since holding this kite at 150 pounds verses 180 pounds might be a completely different experience at this top end.)

Between George's low-wind experiences with the Matrixx 15m and anecdotal evidence that the Speed III 12m is offering a similar wind window (and evidently a pretty similar performance) it seems like the Matrixx 15m might be the ideal foil to fill my quiver void.

I think that the Matrixx 12m will have too much overlap with my Pulse 10m and won't span the quiver gap towards my Speed III 19m.

My kiting holidays are rather limited, so I always aspire to ensure that I have a quiver that will let me get out the most.

Another solution is to get the Matrixx 15m and a tube 12m. This would give me enough overlap and some flexibility at dicey launch sites. (I'd rather tear a tube kite than one of my precious foils.)

Can anyone check with George (Spartan) and see what kind of top-end that he's comfortable with on the Matrixx 15m?

-joedy