Buggying

I have been toying with the idea of strapping in for a while now ....

Using what bits and pieces I had available, I make this set up yesterday (not happy) but the basics are here for me to test it out.

I have a few other ideas and have seen what some of the Euro lads are using .... mmmmmmm


My reasons for wanting to strap in are 2
1. To reduce the chance of an OBE when flying a larger kite
2. To experiment with hotwiring

I figure the 2 setups are very similar in function ... but thinking about it, seem very different in set up detail.


I have set her up at the moment with just a 'lap belt' in mind .. to act as a seatbelt if I get lifted. I figured it was important to find the balance point so if I do get lifted I am less likely to nose or tail dive. When I balanced the buggy I did it without sitting in her ... as I figured I would be lifted anyway, and the buggy would be hanging from me. It also let me test the QR with the weight of the buggy hanging from it.... and streeeeeeeeeeetch everything nice and tight.

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I am after any advice or tips for a lap belt set up or riding with a hotwire set up.

Note: I will NOT use the set up the way it is for hotwire .... the way the QR loads is all wrong + I will need to re-asses the balance point with me in the buggy (I think)




Marty

It looks like you have thought this out very well.
I wouldn't know how to suggest you improve on your idea.
I'm interested to hot wire my buggy not for tricks but rather to improve my comfort when making very long runs. Sometimes I can sit as much as 20 minutes heading in the same direction. Letting the buggy take the load instead of me is obviously going to make life a lot easier.
I'm interested how you will finally attach your QR and how it all works out for you once you've had a few test runs . To be honest, I'm not adverse to pinching other people's ideas & rather cheekily must say including yours.

Cheers Dave ..... I have similar motives about the hotwire idea too ... give me comfort ... lol

The way its set up now and going to be loaded, as a lap belt .... this set up shoul be fine, though I will probably make it a little more 'light' duty in the end. Luke has a lot of good ideas on this.

As a hotwire though .... completely different (I guess)
I see the main issue in the QR ...
- it must be able to take a VERY heavy 3 way load
- it must be able to be released under a VERY heavy load
- it must not be so long that I cant reach the kite controls (usually a de-power)
- I have to balance it properly.

I believe carl has started playing with one (I know he set one up anyway) and the Euro and NZ boys
... well, this is old news for them

Any input I can get is apprecitaed ... and to be honest ... I just LURVE talikng about it


Marty
p.s. When I tested the QR with just the weight of the buggy ..... it's surprising the 'force' they flick open with.

This is interesting and is something new for me. I always thought that strapping in and lap belts was for buggy jumping, not for speed and staying on the ground.

But it makes sense to take the load off in long runs and with bigger kites or just under higher loads. I've only just moved to a climbing harness so this is a step beyond that, I kind of like the burn in the arms after hitting the beach for a while but strap in when the forearms blow out.

What is involved with the "hotwire" set up?

Sorry I can't offer up any info here JKS.......just questions:D

cheers, Evan

if you put the QR in the place of the beaner and just have a ring on each side of your belt it will load the QR just fine my first rig was this way the only thing is when you release the QR go's with the kite witch is not a prob but if you grab the QR it will hart you.


Cheers

Ben

Evan,
Hotwiring is attaching the kite directly to the buggy .... it has pro's ... and con's ... all of which are still theory for me.
After a little homework ....
http://community.flexifoil.com/showthread.php?t=148739&highlight=hotwire
http://popeyethewelder.piczo.com/?g=46928346&cr=7
http://www.racekites.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22013&PN=2
Phew !


Ben ... my thoughts too mate. What you see set up there is all I had lying around in the box or bits n' pieces. I will have a much around tomorrow and do a few alterations.

Do you have yours set up as a lap belt or hotwire ?

Moresoe what I am after is tips on what changes when you use belts ...
It seems that hotwiring will add a new dimension to conering and power transfer No soggy spongey body to soak up the 'wack'


What it does seem ... as you read through a few of the posted links ... is that hotwiring is better suited to heavier buggys,




Marty

Hey Marty, the one thing that I can think of to improve safety a little bit is the quick release setup. You've got the good wichard release, but to release it you have to pull the cord in the correct direction.

You could get some cones made up like in the pic, so when you pull (or push) in any direction, the cone opens up the latch and releases it. I haven't used mine much, but it seems to work well.

Gav

ive been using it for 4 years now , wichard is the best release because it releases very well under high loads and swivels to help when you reset the lines from a twistup by rotating the handles around the lines. It transforms the whole riding experiance. I have a much updated QR system from the one on popeyes page but the idea is the same , it looks more like popeyes one on the dominator. It is awesome for sand dunes, you can buggy for ages with little load on your arms when fully powered.

As for buggy balance when in the air, it matters little for a cougar 2 because that is a ground weapon and you MUST be sitting in the buggy to test balance, the rider is usually more than twice the weight of the buggy and very significant. The only buggies i know of that balance for side force (side ways sliding all 3 wheels at once when fully powered and at high speed) and balance in the air are:

PL buggies
Flexifoil
Ozone stealth
Libre smaller buggies (not dragster)
and my one

feel free to add your own

In regards to lap belts.

In which part of this accident as an example do you think you are going to pull a wichard quick release?

Crash test P4 8m quick release on Vimeo

If it wasn't for the plastic buckles I use that are designed to break, I would have been a lot more F*(&(* up in that accident.

You are not going to pull any quick release going upside down/ cartwheeling so why lock yourself in with a metal clip that is NOT going to break before you do? Where is the weak point in a wichard??

This is my set up, this has saved me many times. It breaks before my bones/ neck does.

YouTube - Kite buggy lap belt set up

good video there on your setup, i could easily incorporate a clip on either side of my existing rig, i should point out i have only turtled once in the 4 years and i just grabbed a fist full of break line. Granted you never pull the release unless your upright and you certaily dont pull it in the air !! maybe im going to lap belt and harness now ?!?! maybe im just running smaller kites and a lot more conservative , i prefer to run under powered and work the kite. I have jumped but only small ones maybe a foot ? Im still searching for the perfect system but i have had many happy years with my one so far and i keep learning from you crazy blokes and changing my system when i see something better. I wonder what tension those clips need to bust ?

I wonder what tension those clips need to bust ?

Jimmy,

I have broken a couple in really soft sand when I dig a wheel in & they break each time I go upside down, hence why I have walked away from any possible OBE, even this one I walked away from, it could have been a lot worse, in the video if I had not detached from the buggy as the plastic clip broke I would have cartwheeled in the buggy upside down and possibly landed on my neck with the kite still powered up, the clip saved me.

No way in hell I would have pulled a wichard in that situation.

Most kite accidents I have seen on videos people cannot even pull their QR on the chicken loop which is placed within arms reach right in front of them, so what are the odds of pulling a QR when you are upside down in a buggy, how do you get your hand down under your self while being dragged flat on the ground with the buggy on top of you?

Put a weak link on your lap belt, you will live longer

Fair point Luke,
What about tying your break line to your wichard quick release so if you let the handles go it pulls the release.

Then you could still have a leash on your kite.
on a bar it would be a bit different i know but using handles have one on the witchard the other on your wrist when you go OH SHIT !!!! and let go one pulls the quick release, and you still have your kite attached with the other one, but pulling on the brake lines so kite lands ( probably all tangled ) you have to make sure that when the kite releases from the witchard it release from the buggy as well, so that the buggy is not dangling on the kite.

But brake away plastic clips used like a fuse is good but are there other ways.

By the way Marty if this is off topic then we can move to new thread

By the way Marty if this is off topic then we can move to new thread

that's a good one Terry ... she's apples mate. I love a good chat.....

I had a little moment ....... yesterday actually!

To paint the picture, wet muddy sand, 16 - 18 knots with the odd gust to 22 or so,, 7 M waroo ... Heaps of grunt, nice big buggy. I was mid way through a big slide turn.... I had the kite in a powered downloop turn, buggy absolutley fanging and next thing the top of my head was in the sand, my chin was hard against my chest .... and I had a little kitty on my back
Not sure if it was a pothole, a gust ... or both anhew .... there is no way in Z world I could have released a Witchard, nor my QR on the waroo. It was while I was riding away after righting myself that I decided ..... no lap belt for marty yet.


Funny thing is .... I wasn't wearing it at the time.



Marty
P.S. Wayne ... your quite MAD

YouTube - bigfootfloater

that is perrin,

hes a legend , my pic is of him too actually

but yes i probably am too

i just dont know how ill go back from hard wire its too good !!!

Great Video

Plastic Clips people!!!!!!! weak link = walk away (hobble)

you do have me seriously thinking about it Luke i respect your advise

100 % Luke




Hey Wayne ..... is it 'Hard' wire ? ........... i thought it was 'Hot' wire


Marty

From my accident!

The weak link!



same plastic clip 5 minutes before!



Photo credit: Schmik aka Mike

i have been riding directly connecting the kite to buggy for quite some time, and i will not go back to wearing a harness in my buggy again.

Any tips .... advice ... set up photos ?