Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SoutherlyBuster

FlySurfer Bridle lengths

Recommended Posts

Repair time for my FlySurfer kites. The pulley lines have busted on one kite, pulley lines on others are on their way out and one none pulley bridle busted needing replacement. FlySurfer offer a line service but are expensive, so time to consider alternatives to make my own. FlySurfer does publish the line plans giving both the lengths of the finished product and the length before the loops have been made. So off I go and measure some of the bridles and they are quite different to the published data, sure I understand the lines shrink over the years as dirt gets in, but did not expect them to be so different. For instance the st1 bridle which directly attaches to the canopy at the wing tip, one attachment point foreward from the trailing edge: as measured 55cm, FlySurfer published 60 cm, that is 5cm shrinkage or 8% shrinkage. Spot checked other bridle lines, say the red ones getting similar figures. It is almost as if the dimensions are for a differnent kite. Any one else measured their FlySurfer bridles and compared to published data from FlySurfer?

I know if any one bridle is to be replaced they must be done in pairs of left hand side plus right hand side.

regards,

Norman

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Norm I had the same trouble with my 10meter Flysurfer Speed 2 and 21 meter Silver Arrow I repaired/tuned in Yeppoon.

Both kites were posted to Yeppoon by their previous owners for me and came with their original manuals. I downloaded the bridle plans printed them out and bought them with me.

The stated bridle line lengths were up to 100mm out for the big "Silver Arrow" kite. It was in pristine condition with no wear on the speed system and couldn't understand the big errors I was getting.

@andy666 helped me equalize the speed system and I tuned the bar/line lengths to the manual/Chart. The kite wouldn't launch very easily at all and flew pretty ordinarily .....I returned the power line lengths back to where they were (125mm longer) when I received the kite and off it went perfectly. The bridle line lengths are enormous on this kite so I suppose 125mm on the powers isn't unusual. Just had me baffled and very frustrated on the beach till readjusted.

The Speed 2 10m2, on inspection after unpacking it had 3 of it's tip bridles stretched and the stainless ring was larksheaded into a fixed position by it's own bridle line and couldn't slide through the ring. "It wouldn't turn the previous owner stated". No bloody wonder!!!!!  The chart measurements for this kite were 30mm to 50mm (bridles towards the centre of the kite) different. So I just matched the tip lines to the other side of the kite. It then flew a treat. At $90.00, kite, bag, lines and bar, it turned out to be a great investment.:mosking:   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks @Chook. I posted the same question back to FlySurfer, lets see what happens. Balancing LHS to RHS is easy enough, but if the lengths from fore lines to aft lines is not in the right proportion, ie replacing only some of them with bad inputs, buggered if I know how to easily fix that. Thanks any way, at least I was not imaginging things :) 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Only 8%? Not that bad :D

Pulley lines = Spare Parts Lines? I had them break on my 15m in NZ two trips back, and made spares from 2-3mm Amsteel bought at the yacht shop. I made them too short; that is, the same length as the unbroken one :D Amsteel has shrunk less than the originals did but when I remake them I'll add 5% to the end though to account for shrinkage. 

The 15m bridles are way out of shape anyway :o

Easiest fix would be make LCL to add the length, but good luck getting bulk Liros line. At all. I'm pondering this issue at the moment...

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, Kamikuza said:

Only 8%? Not that bad :D

Pulley lines = Spare Parts Lines? I had them break on my 15m in NZ two trips back, and made spares from 2-3mm Amsteel bought at the yacht shop. I made them too short; that is, the same length as the unbroken one :D Amsteel has shrunk less than the originals did but when I remake them I'll add 5% to the end though to account for shrinkage. 

The 15m bridles are way out of shape anyway :o

Easiest fix would be make LCL to add the length, but good luck getting bulk Liros line. At all. I'm pondering this issue at the moment...

 

Thanks @Kamikuza, so which was it 2 or 3mm for the pulley lines = sparepart lines. Yes pulley lines are officially called "sparepart line" on the line plans. Amsteel lasting ok?. What does LCL stand for? Joel at FixMyKite also has the 2mm bridle lines, just in the progress to get the specs on those lines.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

LCL= little connection line. The "weak link" between the bridle and canopy.

Yes, the bridle lines do shrink a bit. The mixer test helps compensate for this to a degree, but not entirely.

There used to be info on foilzone (before it shut down) about re-stretching bridles. From memory, you need a pulley, rope, S hook, and a 5kg weight.

attach the pulley to rafter. Run rope from 5kg weight, up through pulley and attach S hook to end of rope. Then hook each pair of bridle sections (LH and RH) onto hook. Pull on each bridle alternatively to lift the weight and stretch the bridle. Check for equal length. If unequal, you can gentle "bounce" the weight for extra stretch.

Although the bridle lines can lift more then weight, I think that guys worked out that 5kg was enough to stretch the bridles, without going too close to the breaking load.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I could just trial the Amsteel or Joel's FixMyKite bridles for the pulley lines, doing all testing above water, so if it goes pop no harm done to me. There is a challenge getting out on the water when day time temps are 8 degrees and the snow fields are tempting us to go snowboarding! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can't remember. The 12-braid, thinnest I think. I'm actually using Cabrinha pulleys too, and everything is lasting well--better than the FS but they aren't as free-wheeling as the FS ones. Brummell splices for the loops, no stitching.

There's info on kiteforum.com about stretching too--same technique as used by paragliders, so if you can't find it there. . . . Something I've yet to get around to but will try . . . eventually. Otherwise, as Andy says :D although people were using up to 35kg . . . 5kg is the load you put the mixer under when you do the test. The goal with stretching is to get the sides equal, and the mixer to take out front to rear differences. Measuring individual lines will drive you mad but IIRC there's little to be gained.

I had the pulley lines bust mid jump. Wasn't as bad as the front pigtail breaking while standing on the beach :D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just got a reply from FlySurfer, they are willing to sell me the bridles lines uncut unsewn. Will be interesting to see what price they come up with. I aksed them about the stretching as well and said, well since you are making your own, make them a bit shorter in keeping with the rest of the kite, but do several spot checks of line lengths.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Replacing the LCL's?? Why, there is no problem there for me. The main pulley line busted, then I suspect this put extra strain on a bridle line further towards the canapy and it started to go ping, though mind you might have been bad luck with a nasty muscle shell on the beach cutting the bridle. Shipping, ya, 17 EU, but still if you get enough it might pay off.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Honestly norm, if you are just buying a length of line to make the pulley line yourself, you are better off just buying some 3mm bridle line from FixMyKite and save a some $$

The smaller sleeved sections of bridle can be made with 2mm bridle line and the thin white bridles can be made using 150lb or 200lb stunt kite line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, sorry, I thought you were talking about unequal bridle lines and stretching. Splicing new bridle lines would be time consuming.

17 Euro isn't bad! How much are you getting?

Liros line is a much tighter weave -- you get significantly higher breaking strain for the same thickness.

There's a boating supply store down the crescent that Ground Swell is on the corner of, on the LHS tucked down the back. They sell Amsteel by the meter, just take in the SPL and a pulley and match the thickness.

BTW have you seen gunnar's video on how to swap the pulleys?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, should have posted a Google maps link :( lazy me

I see "kite line" on their webpage (but that'll be too fine for SPL) but no Dyneema/Amsteel like I saw when I was in there . . . ?

2.8mm must have been what I used: http://marinebox.shop-pro.jp/?pid=53845612 My "local" yachting shop--4 hour round trip and $80 highway tolls :D they do do COD though . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Speed III 12m^2 all fixed up qnd tested with a static fly :) . Flies great, no bridle lines went ping, steering all the way it should be. Left hand side of kite took all afternoon to sort out, hmm where does this knot go, hey that knot is not documented in the line plan, oh bugger better record all the connections if I dissasemble the bridles, oy Pixel (my cat) get out of there, lunch break, dinner break, ok so the list goes on. So once I figured out what needs to be dissasembled to replace the worn bridles, the right hand side repairs went through quickly in 45 minutes. Those little connectors (LC) came in really handy, so only had to dissconnect the bridles from there to the one needing replacement -- clever. Hint, if you are replacing say the B lines, grab all the A lines and hang them from somewhere, like a tripod to keep them out of the way. Also bunch the loose bridles with a rubber band so they do not tangle as all the larks head knots are threaded through, unless you take pleasure in untangling bird's nests!

So now I have scketch of where all the bridles and knots go. Savings = x10 ! By the way all the sewing of the bridles was done by hand since I do not have a foot or sewing machine base plate with a groove to keep the bridle aligned.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Eh? Can't remember the actual names, but you'll have sheathed lines from the mixer then the splits should be "plain" Liros . . . which bits did you replace? The red and green lines, huh? Hand sewing those would suck :D you can splice them apparently but I've never been bothered figuring it out.

 

I thought you were doing the white Liros DC100 (?) lines. . . .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are sheathed lines at the pulleys (yellow lines) and for the red and green lines further up from the mixer. Liros is actually a company in Germany making lines for the paragliding industry. The white lines that attach to the LC's are non sheathed -- did not have to replace them. Only replaced the first pulley line and one of the red/green lines. Sewing the loops would go quick if the sewing machine was properly equiped. Similarily with the splices, a good splicing tool would do wonders, they call them a fid, have not bought one yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Received an email from FlySurfer and they are willing to sell their bridles off the spool, minimum order 1m and their prices are very competitive. Significant cost savings if you make your own bridles / depowers off the spool versus ready made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Similar Content

    • By .Joel
      Flysurfer Sonic-FR 6.0M $800
      Kite is overall in really good condition, a few marks just on the wingtips from launching.
      Pickup from Richmond, Victoria or post at buyer's expense.

    • By SoutherlyBuster
      It has been an interesting journey to Zac and my first snow kiting session. It all started with those far and few in-between posts from around the global of snow kiting and me thinking I’d like to do that. Back in Oz, it was some thing like a six hour drive just to get there, and to start with apart from the kites we did not have the gear. So lot’s of questions to those on the EK that might know thing about Snow kiting (thanks @clive and @goshen), slowly the picture came together. Then came the big move from Australia to New Zealand - South Island - Christchurch, snow kiting would finally become a reality. First step was to pick whether we were to ski or snow board, since we already have experience on landboards, surfboards and skate boards, it was a natural choice … hm at the time … to pick snow boards. We now have 1.75 years experience behind us snow boarding on the steep slopes of New Zealand, just gravity runs. In the mean time I was scouring over reports/stories of snow kiting in New Zealand, to pick suitable places to go and were reasonably close to where we live, and what dangers to look out for. @outlaw gave us some great tips. More scanning on-line topographic maps. We don’t have any avalanche training, and from reading on the subject, unless you are trained, on off piste trails keep below 30degree inclines. More scanning of topographic maps. Then there was the question of at what altitude does the snow begin, rather a challenge here in New Zealand as most of the mountains with snow on them are really steep. So more keeping an eye on weather maps for snow falls and wind.
      Finally the planets aligned, our favourite down hill snowboarding field, Mt Hutt was forecast to be shut (aka Mt Shutt) due to high winds, with the weather forecasts indicating strong to gale conditions. So were we going to bite off more than we could chew? More scanning of the weather maps, must say https://www.windy.com proved to be very useful, thanks @plummet. So it was either a 1.5 hr drive Mt Somer with a 400 metre hike to where the snow might begin and 30 knot winds forecast or a 3hr drive to Round Hill in the south where 15 knot winds were forecast with a hop skip and jump from our car to the kite launch spot. Round Hill has some nice low slope inclines before the steep 30 degree inclines begin, but would the snow line be low enough? Found some web cams at the village next to Lake Tekapo, bonzi — looks like the snow line would be low enough and we had two potential sites around the lake, Round Hill and Mt Joseph. Round Hill was it then. It also had a ski field, so if the wind would not play ball we could hit the ski field.
      It was going to be an early morning start, waking up at 5am, no different to our usual weekends to Mt Hutt. Great road trip Round Hill, we arrived at 0900 and we were greeted with plenty of snow with not too steep slopes. The wind was very light but with occasional gusts, and the angry clouds building up North West of us, where the 100 to 120 km winds at Mt Hutt were blowing. Cut a long story short, we made a few trips up and down the hill from the car to the kite launching spot to get it right with kite sizes. Here is a video of our kiting session, sorry no fancy go pro videos, just stills and movies from our mobile phones.
      By 1530 we were both totally knackered, called it a day and drove back home. Was a great day out, looking forward to the next session.
      Regards,
      Norman and Zac.
       
    • By .Joel
      Flysurfer Sonic-FR 9M Depower Race Foil
      + Infinity 3.0 Airstyle Bar & Lines
      Bought brand new and flown about 20 - 25 times, awesome kite with a massive usable wind range.  I've had the kite comfortably in 10 knots in the buggy, and screaming in 20-25 over 87km/h with 1 arm on the bar.  The kite is incredibly versatile and usable, and has the least lift when powered up of all the depower race kites I've flown so far (R1, Diablo, Sonic-FR).  Kite is in excellent condition.



      $900 + Post (Kite Only)
      $1200 + Post (Complete w/ Bar & Lines)
×