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Northern Kites Australia

Flysurfer Speed 2 19m - mixer issues

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Hi guys,

I am hoping someone kind enough will help me tune this kite properly. Thanks in advance for your time.

I've tuned this kite like 6 times now, and it still wants to fly past my head and into my rear! But if I shorten the back lines on my bar, the kite stalls into the wind window. I just can't seem to get it into that sweet spot. A great kite, but pulls like a truck if it suddenly wants to go to the zenith or edge of the wind window. So in flight, if I give the AOA full power, the kite flies over my head. If I pull the trim strap all the way out, the kite sits too low into the wind window, and it slowly and gradually picks up speed and pulls like a truck when it's moving into the zenith.

There is a powerkite forum thread about this very problem and someone recommended the B and C bridles be shortened, and to ignore the "mixer test" alignment videos on youtube. I've not done this yet. My lines on the bar are all equal, including the fifth. I have flown it without the 5th line, and it really wanted to fly over my head. When I put the fifth back on, it steadied a bit better. Seems the natural weight of the 5th line and bridles makes it "heavier" so it floats better?

Anyone had experience with this very kite, and how it flew for you?

The latest is that A, B and C are all aligned, but I've left Z alone. Both sides are the same. I cannot get the Z adjusted anyway unless I change over the line entirely to something shorter (by about 2 inches). And yes, I've loosened the WAC line whilst tuning.

Thank you so much for any advice.

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I have only flown a speed 2 once, but yeah, they do pull like a truck. It’s what they are known for.

The mixer test only compensates for variation in the mixer. It does not compensate for stretch/shrink in the other bridles. (Normally shrink or the rear bridles)

i would try restretching the bridles to return them to their original length. There are instructions online on how to do this. 

Good luck. 

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I had a Silberpfeil (S2 19 Deluxe) for a couple of years before I got my Speed 3 21. Don't remember details (does it have ring lines on the tips? Or was that just the Psycho3?) but I'm sure the basics apply...

Your profile is wrong -- you've either tuned out the reflex so there's no shape to the canopy itself to stop it over-flying, or the bridle has shrunk to the same result: bad profile.

1. Make sure your bar is actually tuned, including the right mount of throw on the depower rope. I'd do the tune right up to the bottom of the mixer, so include the pigtails.

...

The mixer adjusts the profile of the wing. The assumption with a zero test is that the bridle lines haven't shrunken terribly, or that your SPL (the mixer pulley line) is still within spec.

2. If you haven't replaced the SPL, you should. IMO make your own, use light dyneema <2mm (can't remember the sizes) and make it 10cm longer ie. Speed3 SPL are 100cm and 120cm, so make them 110cm and 130cm. Check the line plan for the Speed2 though. Nice eye splices and a Brummell, and a Zacher knot for the knot end.

[There's also a trick that works by adding a second knot the C-line -- there are threads at kiteforum about it, I think foilholio is the author. I think that's about returning throw to Z but never bothered with it... check it out and add the second knot now -- you'll need to add about 5cm to the uncut length.]

3. Mixer text to zero, fly it. Don't forget to line up A and Z, then do C first, not B, because adjusting C adjusts B by half.

If it still isn't right, try:

4. Long mixer test. (this is IIRC)

  1. Get the line plan, work out the differences between A1 and B1, B1 and C1, C1 and Z1. It's something like 10cm, 20cm, 40cm.
  2. Secure the TOP of the mixer, stretch out the bridle lines and compare A1 and B1. Measure and make a note.
  3. B1 and C1 -- measure, note.
  4. C1 and Z1 -- measure, note.
  5. The differences should be the same as the differences in the line plan, within like 10%.
  6. If they're not, add a pigtail to C above the pulley -- IIRC. I forget this bit exactly, there's threads on KF again with the details. 

Fly it.

If that doesn't help, then you're going to have to meddle with the mixer.

...

In all reality, the S2 was a simple-minded beast that always had a tendency to overfly. And a foil isn't a tube, if you let it shoot to the zenith, it's going to overfly. Maybe you're just over-reacting to it's natural character ... and being too heavy handed on the bar.

 

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I have the 19mtr Speed 2 "Silver Arrow"

The line lengths are NOT equal on this kite!!! Now I was flying this quite a while ago but.... i'm fairly sure I let the front lines out 90 to 100mm on their adjustment above the trim (if you have the Flysurfer bar) or make pigtails for the kite end.

I made the very same mistake when I got mine. I tuned/shortened/adjusted them back to even line lengths before I flew it at Yeppoon and it was a pig to fly with no power. Stopped a few kilometers up the beach and spent some time shifting it back to it's original setting, where it was when I got it and away it went.

I had been corrupted by my Ozones equal line lengths.  :yes4:

 

and just as Kami says gotta be light on the bar. That's pretty tough as it's heavy as hell and takes the whole universe to turn 180 degrees even with a 800mm bar. :eek: 

I would run out of bar movement in the buggy and would just tent pole the bar!!! (grab a handful of rear line and lock it down onto the bar towards the centre to get more throw on that line. (A maneuver shown to me by @gannet to get my Ozone R1's to almost propeller on the spot without fluttering or the tip folding in.

You can hear me commenting to Gannet at the start of this video on its maiden flight. (Before shifting the lines "back"?  out.)

The first frigging dog in the video bit me on the leg that day. The bitch of an owner didn't even say sorry, so I dropped the kite down low, went slowly along "tea bagging" the dog and let it chase me 5 kms up the beach. Last I saw of it it was lying panting under a palm tree out of the heat while it's owner walked the beach whistling it for an hour or so. Didn't see them for the rest of the month I was there.

 

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No, the line lengths must be equal, with the bar in and the depower rope tuned to the correct length...which is 40cm.

https://flysurfer.com/downloads/download-info/line-plan-speed2-19-0/

Most likely Chook, you did something -- like adjust B before C, or not load up the lines enough when tuning...

 

Another thought Lofty -- if you're using the FDS (5th line) make sure there is ZERO load on it, at all trim settings and however much load the canopy is under. FS bridle lines under the least amount of load shrink the most.

I used the FDS on the SA for a short time then went back to FLS because it's basically a PITA to tune the FDS bridle lines to correct lengths relative to the kite's bridle. And makes a spectacular mess when you release and can't relaunch.

When I got the S3 21, I was initially disappointed at the lack of power relative to the S2 19, but the Triple Depower made the S3 a far more useful kite and eventually, I got the hang of flying it and accessing the power.

EDIT: just checked that link -- I don't remember 3 pulleys a side on the S2, and that brings to mind that the Silver Arrow was actually a Speed 2.5, and IIRC that means the mixer and a few other things was more like a Speed3. FS went through an annoying phase of making small changes and releasing a kite in a size or two with updates, before standardizing across the range. Check your mixer and measure to be sure.

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You guys are amazing! Thank you so much.

I've made some adjustments as per some in the kitefoil.com forums suggested (way back then when it came out), but I have to fly it to test. If it fails my "lofty stamp of approval" flying style, I'll try your awesome tips. Thank you soooooooo much again.

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