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72hundred

Here for advice - Plummet

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Hi, 

Over on a different forum was sent here for advice and specifically from Plummet ( http://www.powerkiteforum.com/viewthread.php?tid=36463#pid334543 ). My post count is too low to message Plummet directly though!

Basically I've been flying FB kites for kite buggying for years and getting sick of wet sand / sand ending sessions, also lulls and gusts causing issues, so over on that other thread I'm looking at a 9m Cabrinha Switchblade. 

My considerations are this; 

  • Solo flying possible for launches and lands (this is essential). 
  • Suitable for Beaufort 4 to 6. (9m Cabrinha is listed as 13-27 knots, Bf4 to Bf 6), although theses are probably recommendations for being on water. 
  • Increased wind range with one kite - (an improvement over FB)
  • I've been advised to avoid classic "C" kites but instead go for a hybrid kite. I understand though that most of the modern kites would be considered hybrids.

 

Many thanks in advance! 

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@72hundred I haven’t flown the switchblade, but I can tell you that you will not be flying it in 27 knots. Those numbers quoted on the cabrinha website are for twintip riding. They are also the extreme limits of its range.

you need a lot less power in a buggy, because there is less rolling resistance / drag and no need to have enough power on tap to get up on a plane like when kiteboarding.

another guy that will be able to give you more advice is @roblukin. He flys exclusively pump up kites in the buggy and is a bloody good pilot. 

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@andy666

Thanks. 

What size would be reasonable for Beaufort 5 and 6 for an LEI high performance kite like a switch blade for kite buggying? (17 to 27 knots)

I'm thinking of going small first and then if needed have a larger kite at a later stage for low wind conditions. 

 

 

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@72hundredThe kites I fly are C hybrids, I find that they have a bit less side pull/lift than Delta shaped kites. I fly by myself and have no problem launching and landing q but they are a different beast and you really do need to know what your doing, is not the same as a foil kite. 

Personally I would only use my 9m to 18 knots my 7m up to 25 knots and then my 5m. These would be my upper limits. 

Definitely try and chat with @plummet as well. 

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Thanks for replying @roblukin

Given your advice, and that I'm new to LEI's I think I'll go with a 6m which should handle should be good to about 27 knots for me as it get better with it over many sessions and I can always use it lighter days initially. 

 

I'm looking specifically at the Cabrinha Switchblade at 6m's. https://www.cabrinhakites.com/products/switchblade

No mention of delta on their website and they call it a "hybrid design" - so seems OK on that front. 

Also it gets a favorable mention here; 

https://www.kitesurfist.com/best-kiteboarding-kites-for-beginners/

 

@plummet If you're around your input much appreciated as I might order this weekend. 

 

 

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Heya @72hundred! Not stalking you, I just happen to love this site...

I'm sure others with more experience will jump in here, but 6m sounds kinda small. Generally, you want to choose your first kite for the most prevalent wind in your location, then go down or up from there. If 4-6 bft is your usual conditions, an 8m maybe seems like the call? Maybe 12-8-6 eventually? If wind is more consistent at the lower end of your spectrum, you will struggle with a smaller kite. If its generally at the higher end you will get overpowered on a bigger kite. Whatever you end up getting, just keep it in the back of your mind that you WILL get more to cover all bases. It's a disease.

And try not to overthink it too much... you will have sh*tloads of fun no matter what you get :D 

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Unlike jeffnyc I am stalking you.

And i know what you did last summer.

The 8m Jeff suggests would be a great starting point.

Also roblukin is quite correct,  LEI's are a different beast and you really do need to know what you're doing. We can help with set up procedure. 

Out of interest, what are you riding ?

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@jeffnyc Thanks no worries re the stalking, happy for the input.

 

I think I might start with 6m, as this will be first kite and the whole point initially was to get a kite that resistant to the rain and wet sand, and rain and wet sand generally come with the higher winds in west Ireland! 

 

Thanks 

3 minutes ago, RedSky said:

Unlike jeffnyc I am stalking you.

And i know what you did last summer.

The 8m Jeff suggests would be a great starting point.

Also roblukin is quite correct,  LEI's are a different beast and you really do need to know what you're doing. We can help with set up procedure. 

Out of interest, what are you riding ?

Oh god two votes for 8m - maybe I'll split the difference and go for 7m!

Riding a Peter Lynn Comp Xr+ buggy with the wider back axle than usual with the wide wheels. I got it second hand and it has served me well so far. 

 

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Just ordered there. In the end went with 6m as this is my first LEI and first time actually strapped in so didn't want too much power. I'll keep it to high ish wind days initially and maybe if all is going well in 12 months time or so get a 9m to cover more of the range.  

The cost was slightly eye watering (way more than any other kite has cost me including vapour and yakuza gt), so it'll have to be around the 12 month mark before investing again (probably!)

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I am however stalking @RedSky! We need another 360 video! But seriously, take my advice as beginner stuff as it's still somewhat fresh in my mind, but take all these guys advice as gold.

I'd suggest (this is completely obvious, but has to be said anyway) taking it out the first few times way at the bottom of the wind window in somewhat steady winds if you can. The smaller sizes will launch in lighter winds than the charts specify, but have no power, so you can get to know how to fly it before you go white knuckling in a gale :D

I understand you're in a secluded spot, but if you can find or travel somewhere and have someone walk you through it the first time you would be well served. At the very least, find a big wide open space with no obstacles or people downwind, hopefully a nice big sand beach. And seriously, test the QR, learn how to eject and reset, and do not be afraid to use it. If the kite starts tumbling back into the power zone, don't even think, just eject. You'll know the feeling if you've ever been supermanned (and riding FB these years I assume you have). Tons of YouTube vids, I'm sure you're looking at those. Once you get keyed in, you will love flying it. Depower and trim are awesome.

I'm taking my 12 and 9 out today for the first time in forever... should be interesting. I've been flying Speeds for so long, last time I took out my LEI I looked like a complete kook pushing the bar out for power (does the opposite on LEI) Lets see if I can follow my own advice! 😂 

 

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8 hours ago, jeffnyc said:

I understand you're in a secluded spot, but if you can find or travel somewhere and have someone walk you through it the first time you would be well served.

 

Yes this is a must, if you know a kitesurfer or someone that flys LEI's please take them with you for your first time at least. you need to know the safety stuff and what NOT to do

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Great choice of kite!!!!  Well done, you now own the fastest kite on earth. The 6m is my dream purchase but its prohibitively expensive.

We now expect some buggy speed records from you. Before that happens, fly to Gatwick airport. I will pick you up, drive you to Cambersands, spend the day showing you the ropes and drive you back to the airport. 

Take a look at the guy doing 0-142kph in just 5 seconds using a 6m switchblade.

@jeffnyc Did you get out ? I had a session yesterday, my first since January I think. Heading out again on Tuesday. Hopefully to get some footage for Super Tracks II. ;) 

 

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@jeffnyc Did you get out ? I had a session yesterday, my first since January I think. Heading out again on Tuesday. Hopefully to get some footage for Super Tracks II. ;) 

Yeah, Had a great time on the 12m on an inlet in @18 - 24. All came back pretty quick. I realized I hadn't flown it in almost a year. Everything is so much easier on water powered up in a little wind. Will be a bit lighter today and tomorrow, but will hopefully get out both days. Don't do as much land boarding in the summer - they close off most of the beaches here for the birds and swimmers.

Looking forward to your next edit, first one was fantastic. Not usually a fan of that type of music, but it fit perfectly, watched it 5 times in a row :D

@72hundred I've not flown a switchblade, but the folks that fly them here love them. You will have fun! Let us know how it goes.

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3 hours ago, jeffnyc said:

Yeah, Had a great time on the 12m on an inlet in @18 - 24. All came back pretty quick. I realized I hadn't flown it in almost a year. Everything is so much easier on water powered up in a little wind. Will be a bit lighter today and tomorrow, but will hopefully get out both days. Don't do as much land boarding in the summer - they close off most of the beaches here for the birds and swimmers.

Looking forward to your next edit, first one was fantastic. Not usually a fan of that type of music, but it fit perfectly, watched it 5 times in a row :D

Wow, 5 times in a row! So you're the one. Thanks :)

A year is too long. I'm about the same as you. Less than a handful of sessions last year. Summertime here means a packed beach full of families, loose dogs and a hundred kiteboarders all on top of each other. Maybe that will be my next video, just avoiding gear, and power sliding into sand castles. I do miss the winter storms and empty beaches. Not to wish the summer away of course, it can wait.

Enjoy your beach time and consider uploading a video sometime,  I'm always keen to see where and how other people fly.  

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16 hours ago, roblukin said:

Yes this is a must, if you know a kitesurfer or someone that flys LEI's please take them with you for your first time at least. you need to know the safety stuff and what NOT to do

Thanks @roblukin

Don't actually know anyone - I could look into that. In the mean time any good YouTube resources? I've found https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL41dAinz_9ZeaG5FJ_XU8vyBAE_HL_Cgl which seems pretty good. 

9 hours ago, RedSky said:

Great choice of kite!!!!  Well done, you now own the fastest kite on earth. The 6m is my dream purchase but its prohibitively expensive.

We now expect some buggy speed records from you. Before that happens, fly to Gatwick airport. I will pick you up, drive you to Cambersands, spend the day showing you the ropes and drive you back to the airport. 

Take a look at the guy doing 0-142kph in just 5 seconds using a 6m switchblade.

@jeffnyc Did you get out ? I had a session yesterday, my first since January I think. Heading out again on Tuesday. Hopefully to get some footage for Super Tracks II. ;) 

 

Cheers @RedSky, I'll definitely post back an update once I get going with. 

Thanks for the drive from the airport offer - would sound amazing if it wasn't for that old thing of "work" , it seems to get in the way a lot!

 

 

3 hours ago, jeffnyc said:

Yeah, Had a great time on the 12m on an inlet in @18 - 24. All came back pretty quick. I realized I hadn't flown it in almost a year. Everything is so much easier on water powered up in a little wind. Will be a bit lighter today and tomorrow, but will hopefully get out both days. Don't do as much land boarding in the summer - they close off most of the beaches here for the birds and swimmers.

Looking forward to your next edit, first one was fantastic. Not usually a fan of that type of music, but it fit perfectly, watched it 5 times in a row :D

@72hundred I've not flown a switchblade, but the folks that fly them here love them. You will have fun! Let us know how it goes.

Cheers @jeffnyc, thanks for all the help. I'll post back alright. Really looking forward to giving it a go now. 

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@72hundred Those Kite College vids are good. I found Progression to be well worth the $, they go through everything in excruciating detail. The sections where they point out everything you can do wrong are particularly helpful.

Some of this guy's vids on launching, landing, setting up are worth a watch: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7xlkRmlJK58p_0zkBvaC2A/videos

Lots of others with varying degrees of usefulness.

@RedSky I'll see about posting some stuff at some point. I have a GoPro, but see it as more of a distraction, so almost never use it. And I'm pretty happy in light wind, so I enjoy summer here and my giant kites (21, 18, 15 speeds). I spent my younger years battling angry mother nature, now I get to watch you and Plum do it from the safety of my computer :D

 

 

 

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Sorry boys i havent checked this forum for a while. 

 

Some good advice here. Both Redsky and Rob know their stuff and do more lei buggying than me!

You won't get a lei to do 13-27 in one size without being underdone or overdone. 8m would be closest i guess, but it depends on your buggy and set up. I'm hardwired on a bigfoot bug and generally hold more power than most. Here's my wind ranges below. 

 

12m chrono. crab fart -16 knots

10m edge 12-20 knots

8m enduro 15 -25 knots

6m reo 20-35 knots

4m uno 25- stupid.

PS i can take these kites both higher and lower than this. Thats the general wind range I use the kites in. 

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2 hours ago, plummet said:

Sorry boys i havent checked this forum for a while. 

 

Some good advice here. Both Redsky and Rob know their stuff and do more lei buggying than me!

You won't get a lei to do 13-27 in one size without being underdone or overdone. 8m would be closest i guess, but it depends on your buggy and set up. I'm hardwired on a bigfoot bug and generally hold more power than most. Here's my wind ranges below. 

 

12m chrono. crab fart -16 knots

10m edge 12-20 knots

8m enduro 15 -25 knots

6m reo 20-35 knots

4m uno 25- stupid.

PS i can take these kites both higher and lower than this. Thats the general wind range I use the kites in. 

I too have a kite for 25-stupid!  Love that wind range. :help:

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Switching from FB to depower involves quite a bit of change of technique. 

Most fb flyers will choke an lei by holding the bar too far in. 

The term depower is really incorrect. Its more a power up kite. Think of the bar out being no brakes on a fb kite. Pulling the bar in adds more brake/power. 

You need to pull the bar in until you find the sweet spot. That sweet spot is usually between half and 3/4 in. 

 

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